Pastors Roundtable at C3

Headed out today and drove 1.5 hours to go to lunch. One of the best lunches I have ever had, and Im not talking about the food!

I got a chance to go have lunch at a pastors roundtable (they were more rectangular...who knew!) at C3 church in Clayton, NC just south of Raleigh. C3 is an ARC planted church with a great relationship to Seacoast. Last year at one of our all-staff meetings in Mt. Pleasant I got to meet and pray with Matt Fry, the senior pastor at C3 (although I don't think he remembered that). It meant a lot to me to be able to pray for a guy I look up to in ministry.

One thing is for sure, C3 knows how to host and make people feel special. On arrival, we had our picture made with Matt and his wife Martha along with the special guests for the roundtable Joe and Lori Champion from Celebration Church in Houston. We went in for lunch and on Carries chair there was a goody purse with earrings, bangle bracelets, and lotion! I got a Starbucks card, a notepad and a coffee mug. Sweet!

The discussion was fantastic. It was uncanny how a lot of stories around the table sounds the same as mine in a lot of ways. The main point in the discussion was the balancing act that pastors have to make in regards to people in their churches seeing them as friends or pastors. It is really hard to be both. I knew it was hard in youth ministry, but it is twice as hard as a pastor to adults. I have great friends in our church and I desperately want to pastor them, but it is tough when you have close relationships with them. It can sometimes color the way you treat them or keep you from confronting when you need to. A great discussion that opened up a lot of thought for me as we move through building this campus. 

Oh, BTW when we were leaving we received a framed copy of the picture we had taken upon arrival. A great touch! We were blown away by the generosity and thoughtfulness.

Overall, today my passion for our church was renewed and I met some awesome leaders. I am so incredibly fortunate to be able to rub shoulders with guys like Surratts, Frys, and Champions. One thing that I do know is that God has me in that position to learn so that I can accomplish some great things for the kingdom. Im ready to go!

Summertime, and the pews are empty....sing with me!

Summer can be a tough time to be in ministry. Ever since the production automobile hit the scene to whisk people away to exotic sandy locations churches have slumped in the summertime. Maybe the gas prices this summer will be a help to our growth this year, who knows!

The question I had is what do we do with that? What do we do in the summer knowing that people are just going to be in and out and that our attendance will be affected, our volunteer pool will be affected, and our operating income will be affected?

Im gonna talk to church leaders now. What does it mean to persevere through the summer slump?
As churches, we start looking at the fall and planning events and marketing to get people in our doors in the Fall, but what do we do as leaders?

The church will be here and ready to go when the Fall hits, but as leaders what are we doing to get prepared?

2 Timothy 2:2 says "So, my son, throw yourself into this work for Christ. Pass on what you heard from me—the whole congregation saying Amen!— to reliable leaders who are competent to teach others. When the going gets rough, take it on the chin with the rest of us, the way Jesus did."

What are we doing to prepare ourselves as leaders to speak into the lives that will walk through the door in the Fall? What are you reading? What are you listening to? What are you studying? What are you filling yourself up with that can be poured out onto others in the Fall?

We need to take time in the summer and get filled up. We need to prepare and pray that God sends our churches people that can be raised up as future leaders. We need to be ready to pass on encouragement, knowledge, passion, vision.

Throw yourself into Jesus this summer and use it as a time of refreshing and re-filling so that you can be replicating yourself in a good way in the Fall! Its a choice that I have made. I am not going to be discouraged by the numbers this summer. We are gonna do our thing and do it well, but I am going to use the summer to grow and be ready to hit it hard in the Fall!

The Florida Outpouring Part 2b: Todd Bentley

Somewhere about hour 2.5 during worship Todd Bentley comes out on stage. I didn't see where he came from so I don't know how long he was there or not there.

In a way, this was the moment I had been waiting for. I have spent a lot of time researching Todd Bentley and his teachings and beliefs. I know this guy pretty well by now and it was interesting to see him in person finally. I felt like I knew him. Up until that moment I had thought very negatively about the person Todd Bentley because of the things I knew about him and his teachings. At that moment though, it was as if God opened me up to the fact that Todd was created in His image just like me. I still think his teachings are way off base. I still think he is leading people down a dangerous road. But instead of anger, I felt incredible compassion and love for the guy. I can't explain it, which tells me it was the spirit of God leading me to that. It was what I had prayed for coming here; that God would give me what He wanted me to have and let everything else fall to the floor.

Again, I don't want to go into all of the things that Todd Bentley has said or done that are off-base scripturally. I could go on and on about that. If you really want to know, ask. I may or may not answer you! Some of Todd's teaching and beliefs stink. They just do. But I think God wants me to separate the man from the teaching and show compassion and mercy while at the same time not giving in to false teaching.

I often think of what Paul would have done in this situation. Paul was a pretty black and white guy who called sin and heresy what it was but at the same time loved the person enough that his ultimate goal of calling them out was to lead them to the truth of the cross and Jesus Christ. That is what I would like to strive to do. I want to be able to discern what is wrong in the teachings and yet pray hard for Todd Bentley. Join me in praying for this guy. Like it or not, God is using Todd Bentley to strengthen people's faith. People are getting healed (by the power of Jesus), and I believe people are coming to Jesus all despite the fact that the man leading it is imperfect. But then again, so am I. I just happen to have less influence on people than him.

Time will tell ultimately what fruit comes out of this revival. But in the meantime I want to pray for Todd Bentley. Is he led by God or a false spirit? I dont know, but we should pray for him. Is he sincere or is he manufacturing revival for profit or fame? I dont know, but we should pray for him. Is he preaching the gospel of Christ or harming it? I dont know, but we should pray for him.

And we should also pray for the people going down there that they would receive only what God wants them to and that He would protect them from everything that would bring destruction or confusion into their lives and into their relationship with God. I saw many sincere believers down there in wheelchairs and in pain that need a healing from God. We should pray that they will receive it!

I was a little disappointed that Todd didn't speak the night I was there, but I think it is exactly what God wanted. Had Todd spoken, I probably would have been keenly aware of every word and actively filtering everything he said. Instead, I was listening to God change my heart for the guy and putting him on the top of my prayer list.

More in Part 2c: Rob Deluca and healings....tomorrow.
I would love to have your comments...don't be a lurker!

Florida Outpouring Part 2a: Worship

My prayer as I traveled to Lakeland for the revival on Sunday night I had one prayer. It was that I would see and receive all that God has for me, and those things that weren't of Him would be obvious and fall to the floor. I wanted to put aside all that I had read and heard and seen and walk in the door just as everyone else did that night. Expecting to experience God's presence.

I used my trusty GPS to find the location of the revival which was now at the municipal airport just southwest of Lakeland. I arrived to a HUGE fenced parking lot. There were some parking attendants guiding people in. I arrived at about 8:30, which was about an hour and a half late, but I could hear the worship cranking from a gigantic "tent" setup near the parking lot. I met a few people that had been there a few times and they all had good things to say as I walked past some food vendors and a lemonade/water stand and up to the tent. Wasn't sure where to go since there were no signs and nobody that appeared to be greeting or leading people in. I'm a big boy, I can figure it out.

Going in. I was ready. I had heard from some people that you could feel the weight of God's glory when you walked in. I was ready for it. I expected it. I didn't get that immediately. Sorry, I just didn't. I even stopped for a few minutes at the back and just tried to get aware of my surroundings. I did sense God's presence and I did see many very sincere people worshiping, but I just didn't sense anything that I would describe as a 'weight' or 'heaviness'.

The first thing I noticed as I entered were a few people laying on the floor near the back. I wasn't sure if they were worshiping or sleeping since they had brought blankets or sleeping bags to lie on. As I walked through the tent up to the front on the left side I noticed a LOT of people who were either in wheelchairs or had some sort of disability. The thought ran through my mind that I may see them at the end of the night walking out much different.

Let me talk a little bit about the worship as I experienced it.
As a worship leader, I know two things. One, God's presence always shows up when His people are truly worshiping Him. You can feel it. You know it when you are in that moment. Two, when you bring that many people together to worship it is dynamic. Not because God's presence is there MORE necessarily, but because there is an emotional response to the crowd, the music, the leader, the atmosphere AND the increased faith of the people just being around each other engaging in worship. I saw a LOT of people sincerely worshiping God. I also saw a LOT of emotional 'guidance' from the worship leader. At one point, the worship leader stayed on a single chord on the keyboard for at least 7-8 minutes and stared off into one spot with a completely blank stare. Im not sure what that was for, but the crowd loved it. The longer it went on the louder they got. It didn't seem so much that people were worshiping as much as they were celebrating whatever it was that the worship leader was doing because it was so anti-everything they had ever seen in a church service. This was to become the theme of the night. More on that in post Part 2b.

On a positive note, I really sensed God's presence in the worship and I was engaged in it for some time. Then came the prophetic worship. At times, it was powerful and beautiful. It really was and I enjoyed it. But there were times during the prophetic worship that were just plain awkward moments. The worship leader would be riffing and say something off base and you could hear him backtrack and correct. Nothing major, probably just my sensitivity. There were people dancing in the aisles, lots of flag and banner waving, some crying, some people were slain in the spirit, some were shaking, some were sitting and praying...pretty much the gamut, but not nearly as crazy as I had anticipated. I felt pretty comfortable worshiping there, even given the distractions.

At one point, I moved to the right side of the stage and near the back 2 women were praying and laying hands on a teenage boy who jerked and shook and occasionally screamed out at the top of his lungs. This was a very odd scene even for this revival. From what I could hear, they were praying for God to use this kid, but it looked and sounded more like he was being attacked by them. Many people around were really distracted by it. A guy in a wheelchair rolled up behind where I was standing. I could hear him praying in the spirit. It was beautiful. Actually, I didn't hear much praying in the spirit and I didn't hear much use of tongues even from the stage. I was a little surprised by that. I expected more of that than was there. I don't want to judge, but there was a real contrast between the quiet spirit led prayer of the man in the wheelchair and the occasional outburst of unknown words that the leaders sometimes came out with. Maybe because they had a crowd?

There was another dynamic going on that I noticed. The people closest to the stage were way more engaged in it all. These people were full tilt worshiping with everything they had and were almost as much a part of leading the worship as the band was. That was actually pretty cool to see happen. Then in what seemed like concentric circles out of that the response varied until you got the the farther sections where most people appeared to be observing it all or trying to get away from the clamor going on up front. Interesting to see.

Banners, dancers, flags...they were all there. I didn't see the tambourine lady, but Im sure she was there somewhere near the front. One lady had full camouflage on which she had embellished with gold accents and waved a huge golden banner thing. Something about an army was written on her back but I couldn't make it out. She wasn't still long enough to make it out. I did noticed the production crew occasionally make the banner folks move to the back behind the camera line.

This was an atmosphere of excitement and anticipation. There was definitely two things there, God's presence was there...that was obvious. It didn't have the 'weight' that was described to me by others, but God's presence was real and it was awesome. I was able to engage in worship and really did feel like God was being honored there. I don't know how else to put it that doesn't come across negative, but there was also a lot of pure emotion and hype there too. I don't think that emotion is wrong in worship, but when it seems like what is being done is being done to prolong the emotion...it's easy to get caught up in worshiping the emotional response rather than God. I have to admit a few times I got caught up in it and I had to re-focus myself on what I was doing. I sometimes even have to do that during worship at Seacoast. Emotion can sometimes become our religion, or our idol, and I think to some extent it is happening at Lakeland. I don't think that it is any ones fault that this happens, but I do think that leadership at the revival embraces this type of response rather than guiding people to re-focus on the object of our worship rather than the emotional response prompted by a leader, the music, the volume, the crowd, etc. This would become extremely apparent as the night went on. More on that in part 2b. Coming next.

As a worship leader I understand the importance of excitement and emotionally engaging people as we lead them to experience God in worship. Let me be very transparent...a worship leader who can't engage people on an emotional level isn't going to be around for long. It is a vital part of leading people. A worship leader has to learn how to do it. But there has to be a balance. When an emotional response becomes the goal rather than the means to a goal it seems something is out of place. I can't believe that I as a music guy am saying this, but I would love to see what would happen in these services if they cut out the musical worship part of the services for a while and dive into prayer and the reading of the word in it's place and just see what difference it makes. I wonder how many days the revival would have gone without a killer band and sound system.

I will mention this in the next post, but the speaker for the night called out to churches to break out of their box. Actually, he was a little more harsh than that, but that was the idea. To an extent I agree...we do need times of worship with no limitations on time. We need times of worship where people are free to express their worship in any way they want to whether it be praying in the spirit, lifting hands, laying on the floor, dancing, etc. But at the same time, it's not that we need to break out of the box to become like someone else. It's just a different box. God has given churches and leaders vision to reach people with whatever means necessary. For some it is traditional worship services and liturgy. For some it is a contemporary worship service with drama and dance. For some it is full-on, full-gospel charismaniac worship (thank you, tambourine lady). For us it is a 75 minute service where the word is taught in a practical, non-spooky environment and people can respond to God in worship in many ways (candles, cross, communion, prayer, giving). None of them are wrong or evil or even lacking. They are different and serve different purposes for the gospel to go out.


The big picture is that I saw God being sincerely and earnestly being worshiped that night. It was awesome to see and experience. I can't wait to worship with Seacoast this weekend.

The Florida Outpouring Part 1

This past Sunday while in Florida on vacation I drove the hour and a half from my parents home in Lake Helen to Lakeland, FL to attend a service at the Florida Outpouring; aka the Lakeland Revival.

For those of you who don't know about this, the revival began in April with an evangelist/prophet named Todd Bentley. On the night I was there, the revival was in it's 67th day.

I wanted to attend the revival for a few reasons:
First, I have some serious concerns about Todd Bentley and some of the things he claims to have experienced as well as some things that he has stated publicly. I am not going to go into those things right now on this blog because it would not be productive to point out every issue I have with Todd Bentley. The only thing that I would like to point out is that I have no problem with Biblical manifestations of God's presence. Those are not the things I am calling into question..tongues, slain in the spirit, healing, etc.

Second, as a pastor I feel that I have an obligation and a duty under scripture to 'test the spirit' of any movement that could influence the people of my congregation. There have been some people from the congregation go down to attend the meetings, and some that have asked questions about it, so I decided to go and check it out while in FL on vacation. It would not be fair of me to take a decisive stand on it without going there and experiencing it.

Third, I realize that God is more than able to use someone with a less than perfect track record of ministry to still reach people and make his presence known to them. I wanted a first hand experience of being there. My top spiritual gift is discernment, so I wanted to go and discern it in person apart from the hype of the positives and negatives that I was hearing about. I wanted to be able to separate the experience from the person and make a fair judgment of each.

My experiences at Lakeland will be part 2. Then my conclusions will be part 3. Coming soon.

Post Service

Its Monday morning. Im trying to get a few things wrapped up here before we leave for Florida for a vacation. I blogged yesterday before service, so I thought I'd follow up.

We had a great service yesterday. Pretty decent crowd. Yesterday was one of those days that everything I said and did was really led by God's spirit. I challenged our volunteers to grow spiritually this summer, not to take a break. I had them pray over our facility and plant seeds this summer that will lead to great things in the Fall.

Then I challenged our congregation to the same things. Asking people to sacrifice during the summer to grow the church isn't the most comfortable thing to do, but I really felt like God was leading me to do it. I want to create a culture that sacrificially loves the community we are in and want to see them engaged with God at any cost.

I thought about all the flak President Bush got when the video clip came out of him talking about the war, and then teeing of on a round of golf. It felt weird and insincere. I think the average church is just like that sometimes. We talk a big game on Sunday morning for an hour or two, then it's off to do whatever the heck we feel like doing the rest of the time with no regard to the hurting people around us. I don't feel good about that, and I don't want to be average.

Pre-Sunday thoughts

I often blog about our services post-service. Sometimes that is a good thing, but sometimes after a draining Sunday service it may not be the best thing. So I decided to blog Pre-Service today and share some thoughts going in to today.

Im really looking forward to service today and hope the turnout is good. I am speaking to our volunteers today about the summertime season for churches and how it is easy to be complacent about it and just sit back and let summer happen.

Im going to challenge them to make some sacrifices this summer in order to plant seeds that can be harvested in the fall. I think that we can grow our church this summer if we follow Galatians 6:9 "Let us now become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up."

Pastor Brian Houston made this statement at a conference that stuck with me: "Great churches are not built on the gifts of a few, but the sacrifices of many." That is the quality I want our church to have. Our ultimate worship is sacrifice and God will honor it.

I'm also going to challenge our volunteers to view the summer as a time of personal spiritual growth. Go on vacation, take the iPod with sermons, read the Bible, read a Christ centered book while on vacation, etc.

I am praying that this summer becomes a season of growing in our relationship with God, and planting seeds that produce a great harvest in the Fall for our community!